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[Music] hi listeners welcome back to the next episode from the lessons from the playroom podcast and i have with me another really special play therapist in our field marshall lyles is a gem in our field right now he is bringing in my opinion new thought new life new new excitement to different processes and things that we have heard about for years so hes specifically going to be talking to us about santre and attachment and trauma but he has such a special way of integrating the three and talking about them so if youre not familiar with my amazing guest marshall lives in austin texas hes been at this for 20 years ish over over 20 years he teaches internationally on trauma using expressive therapies he also does emdr and youve done amazing stuff with combining emdr and expressive therapies mainly santre if thats my under my understanding you have um published books articles and you have a new one that is out which i know were gonna talk about and get into and i had the absolute