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hey Ben welcome to the show whats on your mind man so I was thinking back to my first logo job and it was 450 bucks well so Im wondering have you ever done a logo for $50 people in our audience might have designed a logo for $50 or somewhere around there a couple hundred bucks and thats crazy talk to me so I want to get into the psychology of why you would ever consider charging $50 for a logo why you kept doing it because it sounds like youve done it more than once it wasnt just the first time so if you want to know the answers that stick around you guys youre a graphic designer you went to what is it media arts you studied media arts and then you went into the military and then you worked as an undercover cop then you came back into design so thats a little framing up your story in a nutshell yeah so tell me a little bit about how you got back into doing design as a profession my wife and I fostered a litter of puppies and one of the puppies was really sick and the animal she