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[Music] the weekly starts now im here with uh karen kinney whos a principal with the dlr group out of houston and but shes also the uh involved as a studio leader for their k-12 education uh studio uh down there and shes done some interesting work uh taran you you have a degree from rice and architecture but then you went to teachers college at columbia and what happened what did you do there well i decided at the age 40 that i needed to go back to school so i had i had really seen a gap in the in my experience as an architect designing schools and i really wanted to have more training around how to help organizations change and theres a new field out there called change leadership that i honestly didnt know existed but once i found it i dove in and decided that i really needed more training there so i went back to school at columbia and did a degree in organizational psychology okay and part of that learning process you you you found that uh you know in general a lot of the thin